Thomas Maluck: Ashley is the number 16 best reviewer in the US on Goodreads, number 40 globally, for those of you keeping count, and number 57 among its top reviewers, I’m not sure the distinction between a best reviewer or a top reviewer, but if you’ve ever read Bookish realms, Goodreads, reviews, you know that they are honest.
They’re off the cuff. There’s no filler in them, and as Bookish Realm on YouTube, Ashley has nearly 26, 000 subscribers and uploads three times a week. I don’t know how she does it, but always has timely and compelling commentary, whether it’s a series of book reviews or how she reads everything, trends she’s spotting, her take on a hot book, if the hype is deserved, just always a welcome presence in my own subscriptions. So, I would like to welcome to the show, the baddie of your TBR pile, Ashley Bookish Realm. Ashley, how’s it going?
Ashley (@BookishRealm): It’s going well, thank you for that introduction. That was so great.
Thomas Maluck: Ashley, let’s get the origin story out of the way. How did you make it to your current level of BookTuber, BookTok, Goodreads “best reviewers in the world” status?
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Oh goodness gracious. This goes back almost 10 years now at this point. I stumbled across the BookTube community I think in like 2014. For some reason I started randomly going on YouTube and looking at bookshelf tours. I don’t know why I did it. And then I found out that there was this whole community of people who were doing book reviews, book discussions.
So in 2014, I think I tried to hop on, but at the time I didn’t really know what I was doing. I didn’t know like what to do with my channel and I kind of like was off and on with it for a few years. I became, I think most consistent in 2018, but 2020. is when my channel really blew up and that was the first time that I saw that I had started charting on the top reviewer, best reviewer situation on Goodreads.
So it’s been that way now for the past few years.
Thomas Maluck: One of my favorite things about your review style, Ashley, is that you can tell online when someone is chasing the hype or they’ve already seen a hundred five star reviews and they’re like, “Oh yeah, it changed my life too!” I’ll see you call out something like Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros, and you’ll be like, “Where is the action in this book? I thought y’all said this was the next best thing!”
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Ah, yeah, yeah. I just recently said in a video, I always get so fearful of reading books that get a lot of hype because I’m very honest about how I feel about a book and I’m always like, “I’m going to be that one person who doesn’t get it,” but Fourth Wing… I think everybody’s in a fantasy romance type of era right now. Book Talk is definitely in their fantasy romance bag and I was excited. I love seeing dragons in books. I have a group of friends. We’re all in a group chat together. It’s seven of us and everybody like Fourth Wing except me. I was the one person who was like, “No, it really wasn’t that good.” And then I asked them, how many of you have read a book with a dragon in it? And nobody had read a book with a dragon in it. So I was like, okay, maybe that’s why. That kind of is the element.
I think over the years I’ve realized just from communicating with subscribers or people who read my reviews, there’s a level of trust there. When people are coming to my channel or they’re looking at my reviews, they’re looking for my honest opinion, and they trust my opinions, and so I never want to betray that trust, no matter what relationships I may have with publishers, they come first. A publisher can send me something, and I always say like, “If you send me this and I review It I’m going to give my honest review and so if that’s okay with you then go ahead and send me the material, but if I don’t like it, I don’t like it.
And I’m always I think the type of person who’s like this could be for someone but just not for me and Fourth Wing was one of those books where I was like this is for a certain group of people and I know that people loved it, but I just was not a target demographic for that book because I did not care for it at all. There was no action. I was promised action. I was promised like intensity. I was good probably the first part of the book I was like, “Okay, this is a vibe.” By the time I got to the middle, I was like, “Okay, the vibes are done. I’ve been bamboozled. I’ve been fooled. This is not what I was told this was going to be, and so I’m done.” But trust is a huge thing for me.
Thomas Maluck: And that authenticity also goes into how you present yourself on YouTube. I primarily interact with you through YouTube. You do not do the picture of yourself with your arm extended toward the camera, and then you just Photoshop in and out whatever book you’re talking about that video, like every video is like, here you are in the moment, narrating on the spot.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): And usually because that’s how I film, I know people who do like a lot of bulk filming, but I always tell people usually when you see a video come out, it has been filmed 24 to 48 hours prior to it actually going live. Everything for me is really in the moment. Being a parent, working full time, I don’t have the capacity to script videos and not saying like, I don’t think about the content, but I’m not necessarily sitting down and writing word for word, “This is what I’m going to say. This is what I’m going to do.” It’s never that type of situation. So what you get isn’t really what you get, and that’s me in that specific moment, like, how I’m feeling about it.
Thomas Maluck: Speaking of capacity, parenting and of course, recording about what you’ve been reading, there’s a theme that you circle back to often, because this happens every year, as you say, that Goodreads and these other, “how many books have you read” trackers, you’ll have like hundreds of books up for the year, and everyone reacts like, “Oh, she’s so phony, there’s no way she reads all those books!” And you’re like, “Oh, yes, I do!”
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Yes, I do, in fact, and every year, I’m sure I will say something about this in December because it always happens in December as these end of the year wrap ups start coming out and people are talking about what they’ve accomplished for the year. There is always a handful of people who are like, “There’s no way that you’ve read all these books.” well I also get that question a lot because I do upload and edit and parent and work full time. How am I reading so much? A lot of it has to do with just how I occupy my time. And so I am a big audio book listener. I spend most of my work day probably listening to audio books and then I don’t watch TV. The most TV watching that I get is like Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. That’s about as good as it gets, and that’s because my toddler likes that, but once my toddler’s out for the night, if I’m not editing or filming, I’m usually reading. And that’s just to keep up with things that are coming out, looking at certain trends.
I mean, I love reading. It’s one of my hobbies. That’s my passion point. But also, I think it helps me with being a part of the bookish community. It helps with my job since I work in collection development. It’s just a part of my day to day. And so, yes, that conversation always comes up and I always feel like I have to defend myself and say, “It doesn’t matter. What you read is what you read. If you only read one book, that’s valid. If you read a thousand, that’s also valid. It just doesn’t, it doesn’t matter.” I love to see people reading and enjoying books. That’s what’s most important to me.
Thomas Maluck: There is a divide recently between your novel reading and your graphic novel reading.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): I did have to make a split. It was actually one of my best friends. She’s also a content creator, and I got her into reading more comics and graphic novels and manga, and she loves it now. We were on the phone one day and she’s like, “Have you ever thought about doing a separate channel for like your comics related stuff if you don’t want to incorporate it?” Because I know for my audience that’s not necessarily on BookishRealm. It’s not necessarily the content that they’re coming for. And so I know I had a small population that really enjoyed it, but others who were just like, “Eh, you know, I like that you read them, but it’s not really my thing.” And so we talked over it for months and she helped me out with like the branding and the content and everything, so big shout out to her for all of that. But yeah, I did end up splitting it August of last year, so I do run two channels now. The other one being Realm of Comics where I primarily focus on all things comics, graphic novels, manga, and I try to upload over there at least once or twice a week. So it’s kind of double. I doubled the work a little bit, uploading on Bookish Realm and uploading on Realm of Comics. But I enjoy, I enjoy it all.
Thomas Maluck: I enjoy it all too. So as soon as the split happened, I was like instant follow.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): I appreciate it.
Thomas Maluck: Because following you, there’s this feeling of librarians and book reviewers that we like, there’s a feeling of like the lighting of the beacons, right? Like if you read something really good, you want that buzz around it where it’s like, “Okay, but when’s this person going to read it? Because I need them to validate everything I liked about this too!”
Who are you following that that like gets you into that mode where you’re like, “Oh, I can’t wait to see what they read next!”
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Oh goodness gracious. I follow some really, really great creators. Brie at the Locked Booktician. We have very different reading tastes, but any time that she uploads, it’s just a breath of fresh air. She’s very into like crime fiction, so mystery, thriller, horrors, and she specifically focuses on Native, Indigenous, and Black authors and I absolutely love her content. Monet from Life is Monet. She’s great as well. Big fantasy reader, just great content, insightful thoughts on everything. And so even though, you know, just speaking about those two creators, cause I follow so many different creators that have specific genres that they specialize in. I just like hearing about those specific things that they’re reading because those are genres that I’m weaker in.
I read a lot of children’s lit, a lot of young adult stuff, a lot of graphic novels, comics, and manga, but there’s certain genres, especially when it comes to adult fiction, that I’m very, very weak in. And so I can read something and then I’m looking for their validation because I feel like they’re the experts in those content areas. For example, with Brie, I remember the first time I read a Brandon Massey book, it was a horror. I read it and I instantaneously was looking at her review, texting her, “I just finished the book. Please tell me that you felt the same way that I felt!” It was that feeling of validation because she spends so much time in that content area. She’s an expert in that content area and I just value her and Monet’s opinions like a lot when it comes to those specific areas and books.
Thomas Maluck: I just want to give a shout out to the times you’ve been cited for bringing up that there’s a certain kind of YA out there that thanks to publishers, it can be marketed as, “This is for 13 to 15 year olds,” when it’s secretly more like, ” This is for 30 year olds who want to go back in time and be an extra witty, savvy 13 to 15 year old.” because I work with 13 year olds and there’s a marked difference in like, they’re both in the YA section, these readers, but they have very different tastes, oftentimes, not always, but oftentimes. Can you speak to some of what you see in the YA space before we get to anything about book challenges? Where do you see YA?
Ashley (@BookishRealm): I struggle with this. I feel like this is something that comes up pretty frequently now on my channel. I was dialoguing with a commenter on a video that I just recently posted about YA in general and just publishing has now changed YA.
It’s funny because I’m actually working on a project now where I’m reading YA through the decades. I’m reading YA from the sixties and the seventies and getting a grasp of how much has changed through publishing and how the marketing has changed and who it’s geared towards. It’s been a couple of years since I’ve worked one on one with teens as a teen librarian, but the more YA I read, the more I struggle with who it’s written for because there’s been some YA books that I’ve read where as a 30 something year old adult, I’m kind of like, “Oh, like this is for me!” and then I’m thinking like, wait, I should not be feeling as though this book was written for me as someone in their thirties. There’s a difference between reading something in my thirties and thinking about, “Oh, I remember dealing with that as a teenager,” whereas reading something in the present, I’m like, “I feel this. This is me. This is how I’m living my life right now.” And I feel like it’s the teens who are really missing out because they’re not the ones that are being kept in mind.
I think the issues with publishing because they know where the money’s coming from. It’s not the 13 and 14 year olds that are walking in, so not even talking about the prices of YA books right now, which has skyrocketed, which is absolutely ridiculous, but it’s not them walking into a bookstore, 20, 30 dollars trying to buy the latest YA hardcover. You have people who are my age, who are moving the market. And so I feel like because publishing knows that that’s where the money is, they are now gearing YA towards people who are in their mid to late 20s, early 30s. And that is causing, I think, readership issues for teens when this was specifically developed for teens because they didn’t have that space. I don’t know if publishing is going to change that. I’ve seen now, even recently, I don’t know if you saw the article, I think it was in Publishers Weekly about now issues with middle grade and how it’s become too long. You have these middle grade books that are 400, 500 pages. And if we’re thinking about the age demographic for middle grade, it’s like, “Are we really writing for these kids in this age bracket, which I’ve seen as low as eight and as high as 12? Are they going to be the ones reading a 400, 500 page fantasy book?” probably not. It’s kind of hard to recommend that unless you have someone who’s just like, “I want to eat up all that stuff.” And so I think publishing just keeps trending towards older age groups and it’s some keeps leaving out kids, which it’s for them. And I know that publishing is a money making industry, but these books are supposed to be for these kids.
I feel like adults in some ways are taking away from them, which in turn I think makes it harder on us as librarians to do recommendations. I have trouble thinking about what if I had a kid that was in between the age of 12 to 14, what would I recommend them? To me, it’s so hard because I’m always concerned about like, okay, content wise, would I recommend this? Would they like this? It just seems like there’s just nothing there. There’s stuff there, but not as much as I think there should be. So, I don’t know if publishing is going to change anytime soon, but it’s a trend that I’m seeing that I’m not really liking. And I read a lot of middle grade AND YA.
Thomas Maluck: There’s an almost cyclical call among librarians every so often for ” We’ve got all these tweens who all grew up reading Diary of a Wimpy Kid, Big Nate, and Dork Diaries, and where’s that, just one step higher in maturity. Not all the way to I’m getting ready to enroll in college, just next step up? In under 300 pages?”
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Where is it? Yeah,
Thomas Maluck: Maybe costing under ten dollars?
Ashley (@BookishRealm): That would help. I mean, twenty dollars? It’s getting a tad ridiculous now. I don’t buy books anymore. You know, it’s too high, and I know that a teenager is not gonna walk into a bookstore and spend that much money.
Thomas Maluck: This is gonna date me, but I was super into the X-Wing Rogue Squadron paperback Star Wars books when I was in my middle school Star Wars phase, but it was like five or six dollars off the shelf. It cost my parents money, but it wasn’t breaking the bank to get me a book either.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Exactly. It’s just getting to a point now where like, even with my daughter, I’m already kind of training her that if it’s something that I know we can acquire at the library, I’m not going to buy it because it’s too expensive even buying a picture book now. That’s almost 20 dollars for one picture book that you may read a couple of times and call it quits because, attention spans of toddlers. Like, okay, I’m done. I’ve been through that phase. We did dinosaurs a month ago. I’m not doing it anymore. And so now I’m having to train her that way, as she starts to get older, it’s like, we’re not going to regularly make this a habit where we’re walking into a bookstore and buying something that I know we can check out from the library.
Thomas Maluck: The Secret Stacks ended with me predicting that everything around book challenges was only going to get worse and I hate being correct about that. You’ve spoken on this topic several times. Librarians are so much having to band together and share resources and stories and say, oh, it happened here…”
Ashley (@BookishRealm): It’s heart wrenching. I think with my platform because I have, you know, I’m not the biggest channel on YouTube, but I do feel a certain responsibility with the size of my platform to continue the conversations about book banning and book challenging because it exists differently, I think, for us as individuals that work in libraries than it does for like book people on the social media side. A lot of the conversations that I have on Instagram or whatever platform is trying to keep people informed because for a lot of those individuals, access has not changed, and they may be aware of it, but it’s kind of like an afterthought because it’s not directly impacting them on their day to day, whereas for a lot of librarians and parents and kids, it is impacting them.
So I try to use my platform to keep people actively aware, give them tips on how they can help their communities on a local level, how they can keep themselves aware, whether that’s keeping up with the work that Pen America is doing, keeping up with all the stats and information that ALA typically comes out with and just checking the news in their local area about what’s going on, whether that’s within their city councils, their school boards.
I was in a live show, or maybe it was a video, and I was just talking about wanting to wake up one day and everything’s just going to be fine. And I always say like, that’s so naive of me because I want it to all disappear but like you, it’s just that feeling of like, this is going to get worse before it gets better. And I hate that feeling, but just seeing the things that are happening locally, the things that are happening nationally, like so many libraries, splitting with ALA… and it’s just, it’s a lot and it’s unfortunate. It’s like parents going through a divorce, and it’s the kids that are going to suffer if the parents are going back and forth and they’re putting the kid in the middle of it. The kid is the one that’s going to pay for it when it’s all said and done. I think a lot of kids right now are the ones that are suffering from all of this, not the adults, and it’s the adults that are doing all of the harm. It’s painful to see that because I never could have imagined, not saying that this is the first time that we’ve ever seen book banning or book challenging because it’s been going on for a very long time, but this influx, the numbers nationally, it’s super disheartening.
Thomas Maluck: I want to go from a disheartening topic to a part good part disheartening topic. You mentioned the breaks with ALA and some state library associations. This is really over ALA President Emily Drabinski. I think highly of her but people were able to pull one tweet out and then say on the basis of this one tweet, let’s move mountains over this.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Social media is such an interesting space. It’s filled with those positive moments where you can use it to raise awareness and to engage in communities. I think people often go to social media more now for things like book recommendations, engagements in conversations related to book banning and book challenging, and so I always see that as a positive. Even doing presentations now, I know that people are like, “Oh, social media is so toxic!” But even for doing selection, like collection management, social media is a good place if you curate your spaces appropriately, but I have also seen social media just be a very interesting space for both creators and for authors and sometimes there’s moments where I’m thinking like, especially with authors, I’m like, where’s your publicist? Because this one tweet now has turned into complete chaos. I also think that sometimes I’ve seen it, and recently just saw it, where it helps engage critical conversations, but there’s only so much that you can do with limited time and limited characters and so things that could potentially be good conversations often go left, because it’s social media. It’s not like having a conversation with someone face to face.
I saw something happen on BookTok. It was a conversation about representation, which I thought was a good conversation. It was a dark romance that had independently published, which seems like the indie world, especially indie romance world, every other day it’s something, but some of these conversations I think are very, very interesting. So the one that I recently just came across, maybe a couple days ago, it was two Latina authors had written a dark romance that was independently published and to my understanding, at least one of the authors was an immigrant from Brazil, but the main character of the book was an immigrant from Mexico. There were some people who were either from Mexico or were of Mexican descent that read the book and called out the authors for unintentionally writing into some stereotypes, which created a broader conversation for umbrella terms that we use for like the Latine community that doesn’t mean that someone who’s Cuban is going to have a good perspective of what it’s like to be Dominican.
So sometimes like conversations like that, where it snowballs into these very fruitful conversations, especially for me being someone who’s not a part of the community, but I’ve also seen conversations that start off very, very well, and then it just completely falls apart because then it starts with the jabs of “This is not a real apology! Who do you think you are?” Then they end up on this list of “Don’t read these books!”
If there’s one thing about the book community that frustrates me and everybody knows this about me because I feel like I say it every year, is those lists of authors not to read that have no context. I’m not on social media all day, but like every year someone drops this list, whether it’s on Instagram or now TikTok or Twitter, where it’s like, “Here’s these authors that I refuse to read!” and I’m like, “Okay, but what happened?” Because I have no idea what’s the context behind why you’re not reading this author. Did they just make a really weird comment on the internet or are we looking at a huge issue, like a serious problem, and usually those authors are combined on one list but I don’t know. Social media has its ups and downs and its positives and its negatives and I am grateful to be a part of the internet community that is bookish.
Thomas Maluck: I’m always grateful for any time we cross paths one way or another, and you’ll drop a little note to me, like, “Hey, Google ‘murder frisbee'” And I’m like, “What? What’s gonna happen? What’s the murder frisbee?” And then it turns into a rabbit hole, then I come back to you, I’m like, “I saw the thing about the frisbee!” And you’re like, “Yeah!”
Yeah, yeah.
Can we get into some book recommendations?
Absolutely.
We’re going to do a Secret Stacks specialty here. I’m going to say one novel, any age range, one graphic novel, any age range. If librarians don’t have it in their library system, they need to buy it and put it in their library system. What are they missing?
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Oh my goodness gracious, it’s like asking me, “Who’s your favorite child?” These are such difficult questions. Oh, I’m going to have to go with stuff that I’ve recently read.
Okay, one graphic novel that I recently read. I really enjoyed it. Eerie Tales from the School of Screams. It is… what is the name? Scary Stories…
To Tell in the Dark?
Yes. Any kid who has loved those is gonna love Eerie Tales. It is a graphic novel that’s like anthology. I think it’s about maybe three, four-ish Eerie Tales. They’re not super scary, but they were creepy enough for me, even as an adult reading it, and they all had this cliffhanger where I was like, “Okay, but what happened?” Like, it was just good storytelling, and then there was this broader story where everything is connected that I didn’t see coming. I love when an author can write a story, and there’s a plot twist that comes that I was not even aware of and this one had a plot twist that was like… this worked well. I absolutely love that one.
And oh, goodness gracious, Thomas, this is a hard question. I am scrolling through my Goodreads because I literally have been reading nothing but manga really for the past couple of weeks, which is fine, it’s perfectly fine. Does it matter whether it’s like middle grade or YA, just anything?
Thomas Maluck: Anything as long as you were impressed with it.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): As long as I was impressed with it.
Thomas Maluck: Unless you have a list of authors that no one should read.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Oh, absolutely. Oh, this is hard. Okay, one that I recently read that I really liked. Fan favorite. I have read everything that she’s written and that’s Christine Day. Her latest book was We Still Belong. It was absolutely beautiful storytelling. I’m a little bit biased because I love everything that she does, but it focuses on a young indigenous girl who is in school and she wrote a poem in her school newsletter to celebrate Indigenous People’s Day, and she struggles with the reception that people have to her poem, which is absolutely nothing, like no one really acknowledges it. She even has a teacher that kind of says some off the cuff things about it. So she’s dealing with that. It explores friendship and family dynamics. It explores some great historical elements and also current elements about some tribal laws where she can’t enroll formally as a tribal member. And Christine Day just does a great job exploring all of that and creating a fun middle grade read that I think really captures a lot of the experiences that I see kids that age go through. And her writing is phenomenal. It’s just so smooth and brilliant. Anytime she’s like, “I’m going to release a book!” as soon as it releases, I’m on top of it. Everything that she’s written, I’ve read. The only other author that I’m like that with is Kelly Yang, who I will shamelessly plug right here. I love her so much. Her latest book in the Front Desk series just released and I’m currently rereading the entire series because she’s also just an amazing writer, amazing human, love the stuff that she does on social media and all of that as well.
Thomas Maluck: You are speaking my language, Ashley. I love Kelly Yang as well and that speaks to a quality that I think all book professionals should chase is that the representation and diversity is baked in. There can be a marked day, week, month for whatever demographic, whatever holiday, that’s wonderful, but it should be a nice big party for everyone all the time.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): All the time. All the time. And once you get on that train, it’s a second nature thing. I always tell people that if you’re not accustomed to incorporating diversity and representation in all of the work that you do, it takes a while. You get used to it, but once you’re there, it’s such a natural thing.
Thomas Maluck: Well, Ashley, I don’t want to keep you for too long, but I do want to plug that there will also be a written interview with some very different questions over on No Flying, No Tights. Where can people look you up and join the Bookish Realm?
Ashley (@BookishRealm): I am BookishRealm literally everywhere. So YouTube, Goodreads, Twitter, even TikTok, I don’t really, I can’t bring myself to get to be a part of the BookTok community. But if you are just interested, I am over on TikTok at Bookishrealm. That’s the entire brand. So, any social media platform, BookishRealm is where to find me.
Thomas Maluck: I once found an old blog that you had written and the dates weren’t like right at the top. So for a moment, I did a double take, like, “You’re telling me she does a Goodreads review, records a video about it, then goes to a whole other blog, and then writes like a five paragraph book report? Oh my god!”
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Absolutely not! I started off blogging in my earlier years, and that went through a couple of brand changes and people still contact me from that blog, like I still get like message requests, review requests, even sponsorships have gone through that blog. I just leave it up there because of the reviews and I know that people still use those reviews, but no once I started reviewing heavily on Goodreads, I was like, “Yeah there’s no way that I’m gonna review on Goodreads and review here and make video.” It would just be too much.
Thomas Maluck: Oh, one last question. I’ll stop the recording here and ask, where is the cabal of millionaire book reviewers who the publishers are just pumping out checks to rubber stamp their books? Can you can you hook me up? That’s of course the conspiracy theory…
Ashley (@BookishRealm): BookTok is going through it I don’t feel like I see it anywhere else. Like I haven’t seen it on BookTube. I haven’t really seen it on Bookstagram really, but BookTok is going through this uproar right now of “Who’s getting paid for reviews? I need to know because I can’t trust you anymore!” And I’m like, what is going on on BookTok? BookTok is in flames right now. I’m just like, this is the one moment where I’m so happy I’m not really committed to being in this space because between that and there’s also now this uptick in people who are getting asked to be a part of art teams, especially for indie authors, feeling as though they can’t give a book lower than three stars because they are afraid of the backlash. So there’s two things kind of going on on BookTok right now that are just, it’s very interesting.
Thomas Maluck: Plenty to chew on.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Yes, lots.
Thomas Maluck: Well, thank you for chatting today, Ashley. I look forward to whatever you’re about to post next.
Ashley (@BookishRealm): Thanks, thanks for having me.
Circulating Ideas 