Steve Thomas: Sam, welcome to the podcast!
Sam Helmick: Steve, it’s great to be in community with you today. Thanks for the invitation.
Steve Thomas: Before we get into your candidacy, I wanted to find out how did you first get interested in working in the library profession?
Sam Helmick: That’s a great question, and I think I might have a unique trajectory into this field. My hometown library’s levy to build the brand new building that I ended up working in was really, really contested through much of my teenager-hood, and because our library was undersized, understaffed, underprogrammed, I didn’t see its value growing up. Once I had read through all of the R. L. Stine Fear Streets and the Just Fourteen magazines, there was nothing for me to do. And I felt a little side eyed when I tried to sneak upstairs to the adult section. So I became vocally adverse to the library levy. I even wrote a paper as a freshman, which probably appalled my English teacher because I also came from sort of conservative stock, middle upper class stock, could purchase my own books with some privilege, and they still built the building. The levy still passed. I got an A on that paper, but you know, the system works.
About the time I was finishing my second undergraduate degree in a kind of conservative college, a private institution. I had to volunteer and commit to some community responsible social involvement. They called it RSI. They had this shiny, beautiful library in my community and I had zero chill and I asked if I could volunteer there. And it was the year that the theme for the summer reading program was Catch the Reading Bug. And I fell in love, Steve, like you have a teen advisory board with programs. They have their own collection in space. You have digital books. I can be I can be accessing the library at home in my pajamas in the middle of the night. You have meeting rooms for free, and they’re like “have you been living on a cave on Mars for the last 30 years?”
And this little girl came up, we had an insect zoo, and said, “Sam, if you’ll hold this tarantula, I will pet him.” and I am so deathly afraid of spiders. So either that was the moment I fell in love with libraries and recognized that they create moments where two strangers can come together organically and have a life changing moment where we both brave our fear of spiders, or I passed out in the lobby of the Burlington Public Library and the last 17 years have been a fever dream. I’m not sure.
But I did a 180. I now am defending as the Government Affairs Chair of Iowa, 97 library levies that are at risk. I was on the pilot program for the Libraries Transform campaign because I knew through the power of storytelling or holding tarantulas that you could change some of the public’s mind that were neutral or even adverse to what we do and the impact that we create.
It impressed upon me that the rest of my career, because I’m also a social marketing instructor, was going to be about telling good stories. It’s really good and easy marketing because the stories of libraries are good. I have a great product to sell. And then that led into my advocacy work because I understood that we had the second most library adverse bills in the nation last year when I was the Iowa Library Association President, and I was able to lean into my own lived experience to recognize that folks can do a 180 and folks just need to be invited and to hear what’s going to speak to them in order to know they’re invited. I think some of that division we’re experiencing is because people aren’t sure that the library is their space. And I’m like, when we say welcome to all friends, we mean welcome for all.
Steve Thomas: Absolutely. So I’m sure we’ll get into some of those issues a little bit later as well, but why do you want to be ALA President?
Sam Helmick: Right, so, I have really loved the fact that this is an Association that if you are willing to roll up your sleeves and do the good work, they find places and projects for you to do.
I became an ALA Emerging Leader, and then that led into the Intellectual Freedom Roundtable, which I was President-Elect for, and at the same time I was doing a stint on Council as our Chapter Association’s Councilor, Representative for Council, and I just remember thinking, ” Oh my goodness, there’s just a lot of great things that can be done!” and so I was stacking my skills and learning about the community, but it wasn’t until I was actually a chapter president that I understood what leadership is really about for me. And what that is, is celebrating and leveraging the relationships, whether I’ve had them on like Sophie Brody’s award for RUSA, or Stonewall Book Awards, or the Libraries Transform campaign, or the Fundraising Task Force for YALSA to inform and influence my own leadership, right? When you sit on the ALA Executive Board, as I do, and as a chapter president, as I was at the same time, you really, really understand that leadership is listening, learning, but then also resourcing and encouraging the good work that’s going to happen around you. Not one person is ever going to be ALA, and that is for our betterment. And so, I think that I can harness those lessons, I can harness those stories, and I can lean into what my skill sets have always been, whether that’s the Community and Access Services Manager at the Iowa City Public Library, or a Chapter President, or an Executive Board Member, and that is to uplift, encourage, and resource the good work that’s being done.
This candidacy is never going to be about me. It’s going to be about how our stories are worth sharing. Because whether this gift is a four month long campaign, or a three and a half year commitment, celebrating and platforming you is the work I’m always going to be doing, regardless of the title that I hold, and I’m excited to have found a calling that allows me to invoke good as a library worker, but then also to share the good of others. We are one ALA even though we have unique and diverse roles to serve in the communities that we are honored to steward.
Steve Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Well you talked about some of the roles that you’ve already had in ALA. What’s been some of the more personally rewarding work that you’ve done within the Association?
Sam Helmick: I think. I’ve learned something unique at every single resolution, if that makes sense. I think building community with the Emerging Leaders and recognizing the power of like a group project and asynchronous and synchronous learning was absolutely useful to me, and then to move into committee work and supporting the work of LITA. I was involved in that for a little while and I remembered thinking, “Oh, the power of ALA is in its membership. We actually get to direct the course of collaborative work, advocacy, group learning, conference. I was just kind of blown away by, again, the fact that if you’re willing to roll up your sleeves and do work, ALA has stuff for us to do that will have impact and efficacy in the world.
Then I think being on the executive board during a time of great transition, right? So I come on and we have our first digital Council, we have our first hybrid conference, we are transitioning between Executive Directors. We’ve had board members join as the structure of the Executive Board has changed through Council approval, but we’ve also had board members who have stepped away and it’s taught me the power of the people. We do this really good work together and it’s impressed upon me a truth I think I needed in this moment, Steve. The truth is that, this is hard, and the good work’s never done, and you could feel a profound Sisyphean sensation, but it’s always been done. We’re about to be 150 years old, and I’ve watched us succeed and learn lessons about flexibility and agility and response to the matters around us through the adversity of meeting the pandemic challenges.
Thank you for letting me just kind of think about that. That’s a gift to reflect on my history and understand that every single circle has served its own purpose. I had dinner at Lib Learn X last week with a couple members of my YALSA Printz Award committee, and was just thinking about how you actually like grow to love people and even when you’re having a rough day and the bills are not going your way in your own state, you’re seeing the power of libraries and the power of people devoting themselves to it.
So, yeah, I would love to have given you like a simpler answer, but I think that it all weaves into a tapestry and I always try to remember I’m not the smartest person in the room. Somebody is going to inform me and guide me whether it’s a committee member or somebody I just see in the vendor hall and we have 45 seconds together.
Steve Thomas: What do you see as the biggest challenges coming for libraries in the next few years, and how would you as ALA president lead the profession to help address them?
Sam Helmick: I think that we need to demystify a couple of truths. The first one is that we are not going to paint ourselves out of a couple of wrinkles. I was thinking about the fact that vocational awe, that term is like 10 years old now. We need to resource our values. I’m really lucky to work at the Iowa City Public Library and to have worked on their recent strategic plan and staff wellness is one of our five pillars for success. And that means that A, we have to report on it and B, we have to resource it. So baking it into the bread of your institution is something that I think needs to happen en masse and it needs to become like an industry or a professional standard. We need to be finding space to talk about it because we cannot resolve some of the issues that are societal and one of the issues that are societal is that we are incredibly under resourced and under equipped to recognize that this good work is never going to be done. The satisfaction of that is never going to come, so we have to give ourselves water breaks, and restoration, and some grace. So I think that’s one of the first wrinkles that we can’t iron ourselves.
The second one is that we are fighting a culture war, to use a little bit of militaristic terminology on you, Steve. And it’s distracting us from a class war. We need to work at demystifying a couple of things: how libraries are funded, why libraries should be funded, and the strategic privatization of the work we do. And I think that that’s twofold. That’s obviously through our funding structures federally and state and then municipal and county, but it’s also having a real firm conversation with those we do partner with as vendors and publishers and recognizing that we do not have a consumer / patron’s rights seat at the table, and that eventually these legislative actions at the state level will be leveraged into a federal one. The momentum is there, the public education is there, and we need to just keep continuing water dripping that.
So, for me, it’s funding, and recognizing that we need external resources. It’s inviting the public to the table. Every single time I was talking about the adverse library legislation for banning school books in Iowa, they’d always give me an opportunity or I’d always answer the question I wish they’d ask me instead about what else are you facing with libraries and I’d bring up the levy bill and the fact that overnight, 97 libraries just lost the funding that they petitioned for, balloted for, voted for. That perfect representation and taxation. And I would appeal to both sides of the aisle, and how we both value literacy. Iowa literally wrote the Library Bill of Rights, and then it was adopted a year later nationally and is an international standard. We have more public libraries per capita than any other state in the nation, and I would remind them of their own legacy. And then I would try to speak to some of the values of local governance, the return on investment and invite people gently but firmly to the table to do this good work.
So I guess, short story long, I’m interested as your president in bringing the public to the conversation and insisting that they do this good work because librarianship happens in community. I think that we’ve been thinking that we fix this inside the house and we can’t. We have to find partners to support us in the good work we do.
I keep bringing it back to my slogan of our stories are worth sharing because I’m not talking about a specific set of stories, it’s difficult to be the first chapter president that is openly non binary, asexual, and aromantic, and have Gender Queer be the most banned book in the state, but my goal was to invite everybody to the table to insist that we have these conversations and that we come together, because this is ours to protect and defend. While I’m here to steward a process and to steward a collection, it is our collective responsibility to resource our values.
And so I think it was this insistence of our stories are worth sharing, whether they’re stories on shelves, our stories are worth sharing because folks need to know that we’re winners. Libraries are winners and people like to back winners. And then I have to remind folks that library stories are everybody’s stories, whether I go to a Chinese language story time or hop on the bookmobile ever again, Iowa City Public Library provides both, and those are my stories. So I think it’s reminding people of that too, that you don’t have to be directly benefited or impacted, it’s still yours.
We don’t have to be antagonistic just because we’re adversarial sometimes on different topics, and I think we forget that sometimes. I never want to drop a mic because the voices I represent are too important, I gotta hold that mic up.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, when you drop a mic, you’re shining the spotlight on yourself. There’s very much a “I’m clever, that’s right, no more conversation.” Like, no, let’s not end conversations.
Sam Helmick: And let’s recognize what it is. It’s forfeiting the voice of those that I have been privileged to represent.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, it’s not pass the mic to the next person. It works in rap battles, let’s not bring it into the whole rest of the universe.
Sam Helmick: Agreed, yes.
I think that it’s fascinating that Membership don’t always know that the President of the ALA is also the President of the ALA-Allied Professional Association, and as a person who was previously union before I went to management, that Association has served me greatly throughout my entire career. I find great efficacy and power behind it, and I am actually the Executive Board liaison to ALA-APA. So I would suggest that some of the work we can do there would be focused on resourcing information and training the trainers on burnout and work-life balance. But I also think that there might be some efficacy in talking about unions and contracts, helping folks recognize that there is a lot of hidden work in librarianship that you will not be receiving in library school and that we need to lean into folks with different pathways and different avenues of education.
But then again, this is why I like to share our stories again too. The first thing I did when I moved into the Iowa City Public Library space as their new coordinator here, it was pandemic closure, almost been for a year, kind of hired to help them open it like I did Burlington. Pre vaccination, like two people in my entire building when I have like 36 direct reports to give context. I put up giant whiteboards, and I would ask an engaging question on the way through the door so we could get to know each other, but the one that I really love is called the Wall of Wins. And the reason that we have a Wall of Wins is to celebrate each other and to remind each other during the grind of curbside, during the grind of finding out who this kooky new coordinator is and what we’re going to do with our world now that it has COVID in it. There are still moments of celebration, and if you don’t hold on to them, then you contribute to burnout. And I don’t care if it’s work-related. In fact, I’d prefer to know that you got the part in the play, and that you got a new puppy, and that you’re just doing alright. It’s something that three and a half years later, we still are highly engaged in, and it’s the way I always end conversations with my staff. What are you looking forward to? What are you jazzed about? And so I think there’s some work with ALA-APA to directly help us with library worker burnout, and I’m excited to see the developments that they’ve made in the two years that I’ve been their liaison and what is to come.
Steve Thomas: Well, you talked about your wall and the whiteboards and such. Are there other things that you’ve done to help your staff succeed at your location? And how could you use those skills as ALA President?
Sam Helmick: Right, I think it becomes a matter of vulnerability and authenticity for me and my leadership. When staff are reviewed on an annual basis, we really utilize that opportunity to talk about their personal and professional goals. If there are high fives to be had, or gentle coaching to be had, it happens when it needs to happen in the moment. This is an opportunity to bring our full humanity, and maybe it’s a little invasive. But my goal for my team, Steve, is that they’re all right. I’m almost asking them for the hardest thing of all, I need you to be all right. And I want to resource that to the best of my ability because this profession is full of smart people, and as long as they’re all right, we’re all going to figure this out. I’ve learned that after 15 years of management, and so that’s part of our annual review.
The other piece of it is to make myself vulnerable and ask them to review me. It’s not a requirement, but I think it’s useful. I think it creates an environment where eventually, at least over time, you learn that you do manage up. You do need to seek the feedback of those that you’re responsible to resource and to advocate and to direct. And this is a vehicle by which they can let me know, “Hey, Sam, sometimes I pop in and I’m gonna start prefacing this with it’s not actionable because you always want to solve the problem and sometimes, I just need you to listen.” So I’ve used that in other resolutions. I took that to my ILA board. I took that when I was the chair of the Commission of Libraries for the governor in Iowa, and I take it into the Executive Boardroom. In fact, it’s been a privilege to have library rock stars that I was intimidated to work with on committees or at the Executive Board and say, “You have this tendency to listen to the entire conversation. Then you’ll synthesize it clearly. And you’ll find a way to honor both positions and try to find the way forward.” And I’m like, yeah, but that’s because I’ve lent myself and allowed myself to grow the muscle of being vulnerable, and even asking if I know, even if I feel like 98 percent that I know because that also engages the other person. It’s not only that you learn something new, but you’re also helping strengthen their muscle that their voice matters.
So as ALA president, I think that would be leaning into obviously our member leadership, our excellent Board, but then also I’ve been observing the work of Council for quite a few years in the direction that we’re heading. So I would invite all of us as a leader to pause and reflect on what we’ve learned because we are go, go, go all the time. And we need to be, and it might seem counterintuitive, but those annual reviews where folks just check in with each other, I think a holistic review where we would check in with each other as a Council, as an Executive Board, but then also as division and member leaders would prove useful to us because we were so busy responding that I don’t think we’ve taken stock of what we’ve learned. There’s a part of me that would really love to support that as a continuation and transition into what is in store for us for the next 150 years.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, no, I definitely feel that just in my work, leadership is taking care of your staff, but then you’ve got to remember to take care of yourself as well, and that gets lost a lot of times. And so leadership does not do that self-care a lot.
Sam Helmick: I just wrote a blog post talking about library workers or leaders. They lean into our social and emotional intelligence a lot. We facilitate a lot of difficult conversations at our institutions and museums and public libraries and I’m, like, we’re leaders. At every resolution, we are leaders And so how I introduce myself because, like, “What in the world does the Community and Access Services Coordinator do? That’s a mouthful!” And I’ll say, “I am responsible for resourcing and advocating three great teams the ones that provide public relations and marketing the ones that provide outreach and bookmobile services, and the ones that provide circulation.”
And I remember, we finally made it into the lobby for circulation in early 2021. And the mayor, I didn’t know I was talking to the mayor, but then he came back later and he said, “I really liked the way that you introduced yourself and explained to me what the work is.” I’m like, “Good, because it was off the top of the dome, and I’ve used that ever since!”
Steve Thomas: To shift focus a little bit, libraries when we’re trying to work on our diversity in our profession, how can libraries work to create more inclusive work environments so that they can retain staff that they get, whether it’s BIPOC or any other marginalized communities and just make them feel like they belong when they’re there?
Sam Helmick: So let’s talk about it, ’cause I’m a structures guy. We’re going to start at the ALA resolution and move on down. Does that feel good?
Steve Thomas: Yep.
Sam Helmick: The first is that we have some work to do. Two of my objectives when I was getting onto the Executive Board… I was like, I want us to stop describing the water. I want us to build rafts. And that’s when we kind of got Unite Against Book Bans on the map. My second one was that I want us to walk and talk and live and breathe our EDIA values, and so I asked that that be more embedded into the hiring, student, and curriculum makeup of the degrees that we accredit. I didn’t realize legislation was going to outpace us. So that’s been a little bit more difficult, but it’s still work that needs to be done. We weren’t able to plant that tree as much as I would have liked 20 years ago, so now we have to plant it today, and I don’t think we can let too much stand in our way, you know what I mean? I’m just going to be firm about it, knowing that it’s hard, knowing I’m not an academic librarian, knowing that I’m asking a lot, but it needs to be done.
So structurally, that is where I feel like this takes shape. We need to recognize that even if we were to remove degrees, that’s not solving the problem at the educational level. I mean, it’s sort of stripping to some level the professionalism of our profession, but it’s also not solving the systemic problems with our degree granting institutions and who is being hired to teach the next generation of librarians and who are becoming the next generation of library workers. So it’s that resolution first.
And then the second is when we are fortunate enough to hire librarians of color and diverse librarians, it needs to be under the framework that the orientation and the onboarding is a long and mindful process. I’ve been really honored and lucky and Iowa City to do a few things. The first one was we were only posting jobs internally. And I’m like, you’re just going to get more people who look like me. So one of my first unpopular choices was to say, I’d really like this to go out to general population at the same time. My pre union heart is like, what are you doing, Sam? But my EDIA heart is like the needful thing, and then the city made it a standard like two months later. And that has enabled me to have wonderful relationships with our first Hispanic public relations specialist, our first Filipino graphics designer. We’ve had so many wonderful folks of color and talent come to the library now, and that’s great, but that doesn’t mean mission accomplished. What it means is that it’s now my role as a leader to create an environment that is welcoming and inclusive but also supportive and platforming.
None of us go into a library not wanting to grow and figure out where the trajectory of our role in our life is going to go. So, I need to really invest myself in what they want from their career, and how I’m going to resource it, and it breaks my heart. They’re all wonderful, but I know that I’m setting them all up to outgrow me, and outgrow my department, and outgrow my library. But frankly, that’s the way it’s got to be because they need to level up into positions of leadership and continue to do the good work.
So how do we create those environments? My public relations specialist and I had a lot of heartfelt, I’m going to be honest, like tearful, difficult conversations where I would come in and I’d say, “I think this is going to be difficult for you and I’ve been, I’m acknowledging that I’m seeing like some siloing, I’m seeing some microaggressions in various projects that we were doing around the community. Do I come in here and support you with my privilege, by speaking? Do I come in here and support you with my privilege by letting you speak and push through this wall?” And we would have to decide that group by group, project by project, but it was constantly taking the temperature of “How do I platform you without erasing your power in place in this space?” and boy, am I lucky to have them! Am I lucky to have folks who would do the work with me and teach me and have grace for me, because frankly, that work’s never done either.
I’m going off on a tangent here and I think I’m tearing up, but it’s because I’m so grateful about my own professional development and the fact that we are opening doors and that I wish that more of our profession understood that it is like a two sided gift. It’s a gift for our patrons, but it’s a gift for those who are already in librarianship. So for me, I’m really invested in understanding the work of our National Associations of Libraries of Color. I’m really interested in understanding the intersectionality between them and ALA-APA, because I feel like there could be some work here in how we create environments that are conducive to folks, not necessarily staying, but growing and finding satisfaction in the work.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, no, I agree. It’s like, we don’t want people to leave because they don’t feel like they belong, but we want them to grow and go to where they belong the best.
Another big topic is neutrality which we could talk about for hours on end probably but basically, we have the core value of intellectual freedom, but then we also want to provide safe, inclusive environments for people. How do we balance those out?
Sam Helmick: Wow. Let’s yeah, let’s end with a banger. That’s wonderful, Steve. Yeah, the conversation about neutrality fascinates me quite a bit because it suggests that we can arrive, and what I mean by that is if we go back and look at the canon that was on the shelves 75 years ago when we had lead paint and redlining even more in mass than we have now, and we have, like, the oil wars, or just all kinds of things, you just go back 50 years, and you’re, like, if we were moving at an acceptable pace of progress, you and I should be able to look back on ourselves, even personally, let alone societally and be like, “Huh, what was that?” because the growing never stops. We’re never going to be like, “Mission Accomplished!” So I guess for me, even having this conversation suggests that we can arrive at neutral, as if there is a way that we can create a space in which we won’t be appalling. I think of Ranganathan’s “a book for every person and a person for every book,” and so whether it’s the fact that we have BPA in our plastics, or that we’re eating meat, whatever way you feel about that, or the fact that we’re outsourcing labor to other countries where cell phones cost 10 dollars… We all have things to answer for in this part of the timeline.
So I’m not satisfied that I can actually arrive at neutrality. I just am not. And I kind of hope that when I look back five months from now, five years from now, fifty years from now, there will be reasons to have been appalled, but there will be reasons to say, “Oh, but I learned and I’m reflecting and I’m doing better,” which will inspire them more. So it’s like Forrest Spaulding, right? Des Moines Public Library, 1938. We’re not letting German immigrants into our meeting rooms. We’re not going to have Mein Kampf on the shelves. Then we do some reflection, and we recognized maybe we would have understood what we were in for with World War II had we not tried to do this. So we got our Library Bill of Rights. They’re adopted by ALA a year later.
I think it’s more about being reflective. I would love it if instead of talking about neutrality, we talked about having mindfulness and reflective services. Because the pressure on our profession to have quote unquote arrived and to have solved this is too great. It’s too great for any faction of society. And so what is our responsibility? I think our responsibility is to honor a process. I think our responsibility is to gently insist that the public is engaged in this good work because at the end of the day, this is a cornerstone of democracy, this profession, and that means it’s going to be people based and messy, and finding peace with that, but I also think it’s just being reflective of ourselves, kind of inviting ourselves back and thinking about, I’m not sure that I think all of the books written 75 years ago or 50 years ago should be off the shelves, and I’m not convinced that even like if we move forward with like BPA or, you know, meat, that barbecue books should be off the shelf in 50 years because I also don’t think we erase the canon and kind of wash away what we’ve scaffold to grow on. But I do think that there’s some conversation on giving ourselves grace and understand that we can have reflective services. We can have mindful collections and that, as much as I want to create a safe space as much as I’m committed to doing that, I am going to be doing that and as are you frankly, friend, in flawed human messy ways. I think that’s the first part of the project is acknowledging that again, like most library work, it’s never going to be done. We just have to apply ourselves to the best ability possible.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, so the first thing that came to mind was the Martin Luther King quote about the arc of history bends toward justice So like you’re you might be going too slow but you are going in the right direction and that’s the most important thing, and if we look at 50 years ago, the world is generally a better place, I know there’s areas where it’s not, but generally we’ve moved forward.
Sam Helmick: At some point, those stories about Freedom Riders, which I’m reading right now to feel inspiration because we’re in a political year. If those stories were removed because of their horrific nature, if we, at some point can arrive where we believe that we no longer need to understand what took shape here. If we really create a library where we don’t understand that reading Mein Kampf is instructive because, shucks, you know what’s going on in the world as much as I do. I’m worried about that. I’m a little concerned because the only way I can actually engage with the concept of is it, is it getting better is to understand what it once was and where we can bounce off from.
And so I would, at least in my own sphere of lived experience, I would say Gender Queer being the most banned book in my state, it didn’t wrestle my jimmies or break my heart as much as it could for a couple reasons. It obviously created a Streisand effect. But I also remember being that kid. I remember being that kid, and having finished all the teen materials, and wondering where in the world the stories about me were, and now I’m seeing them. It’s an honor and a privilege to defend them, but better still, think about the stories that are going to be written tomorrow if we can keep doing this work. When people say, “What’s your favorite banned book, Sam?” I’m always like, “Steve, it’s yours. Or it’s the patrons that I just checked out on the bookmobile. Or it’s the one that’s yet to be written.” Like, that’s the part of this that excites me.
Steve Thomas: You know, I’m optimistic, but I think it’s Dave Lankes has said pragmatic optimism. That’s what I am. And it’s like, I’m optimistic, but you have to work in the real world.
Sam Helmick: And I think that that’s an honorable perspective to have, because if we didn’t think we could reach the promised land, so to speak, we’d quit running towards it. But I think generations, societies, civilizations before us thought they got there too. So there is a part of me that’s like, while that’s good energy, I need to learn from history and recognize that I may never fully arrive, but that doesn’t make the journey less essential.
Steve Thomas: Absolutely. Yeah, no, and I think that’s even for non-religious people, that’s part of the point of the Moses story is that he doesn’t get there, but he got them there. So it’s like you were doing the work to get there. You don’t have to believe in it that actually happened or anything religious. That’s the point of that story, part of it, he led them there and then unfortunately also Martin Luther King gave the speech about, “I may not make it” the night before he gets shot. And then it’s like, so he didn’t get to see it all the way through either.
Sam Helmick: Well, I’m glad I could tear up in front of you at the end of this meeting, but you’re absolutely right. His vision was so clear. It wasn’t about, it was obviously about the destination, but I think he was equally committed to the journey, and that’s why I think I’m your advocacy candidate right now, because I understand that the journey has to happen in community and that we can’t fully resource ourselves. There was a Million Man March. We are all responsible, and I mean we as the public, to contribute to the good cause of libraries. Let’s just keep gently pulling up chairs, and be like, “Hey friend, this is your table too.”
Steve Thomas: Before we wrap up, what are some ways that ALA can make itself more attractive to new members, and then once they’re in, make them feel like they belong and get more involved in the profession?
Sam Helmick: That’s a great question and I think that the way it worked for me was you gave me something to do. When I work in advocacy and legislation or fundraising or outreach, folks want something to do. So I think working through the new members roundtable but also maybe funding and resourcing more of the work of the chapter relations office so that they can do that intersectionality with RUSA and ARSL and ACRL and PLA and ODLOS is important because the chapters represent what is happening on the ground when it comes to funding and resourcing. Folks need something to do. And I think that there’s tons of work to be done in those avenues, especially like the Chapter Relations Office and Advocacy right now.
But I also think it It’s showing our value. And so resourcing our advocacy arm, resourcing our chapter relations arm, and focusing on ALA-APA projects that help the profession itself is going to show our value because we’re the only American professional library resource that’s out there. This is the oldest and largest, but also like the most impactful association for library workers in the United States. I would love us to lean into those resources and to support them and look at projects outside the box. Beyond advocacy and privacy and power mapping, also talk about things that affect different divisions and chapters.
One of mine is that association managed services don’t seem to have like an industry standard when it comes to like compensation and what affiliates and divisions should be expecting. I just did an RFP project. So during my presidency and we have a new service provider and I’m like, this is work that the association could be sharing that immediately shows our value. As outreach librarians, some of us know that you go into the community first, you show your value, then you ask them what they need, and then you match them with the resources they might not have known about. So those are the ways that I would be engaging members. Give them stuff to do, but also… we’ve got a lot of value. Let’s just show it. Let’s brag it up.
Steve Thomas: Yep. Yep. We talked about a lot of stuff here, but if listeners wanted to learn more about you and your candidacy, how could they get in touch with you or find out more?
Sam Helmick: Wonderful. So I hope folks will reach out to me at samforlibraries.com. I’m collecting stories along the campaign trail that I can amplify, celebrate, and uplift, and I would love to hear your stories.
Steve Thomas: Sam, thank you so much for talking to me today and I’ll have links to your site and some other places people can go to learn more information about the candidates, and I hope everyone who’s listening goes out and votes, if you’re an ALA member and if you’re not, you can join and then vote. So, thank you so much for joining me today.
Sam Helmick: Be well, Steve.
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Steve Thomas: Ray, welcome to the Circulating Ideas podcast.
Ray Pun: Yeah, thanks for the invite, Steve. Happy to be here.
Steve Thomas: The first thing I wanted to get started with before we talk about your candidacy for ALA president is what got you interested in working in the library profession in the first place.
Ray Pun: Yeah, for me, it started when I was a college student as a History major, like many of us in liberal arts, trying to figure out what to do with your degree, and I was thinking about the experiences of what we’ve seen in terms of, as a child of immigrant parents, it’s always been thinking about medical, law, or accounting. There was something interesting about law and specifically human rights issues. I was really I was interested in the history of human rights. I was interested in looking at human rights in a way that helps me understand my values and then the work I wanted to do after graduating college, but I was also interested in particular experiences that really shaped my youth, reading the Diary of Anne Frank and thinking about the issues of the Holocaust, thinking about how to preserve those Holocaust records, oral histories, because I took a class in Holocaust, and then thinking about the connection between that and human rights, and also having an opportunity to intern at the Dorot Jewish Division at the New York Public Library as a history major. I was able to intern and put that into practice. The librarians there taught me public services, taught me collections management, taught me how to support researchers interested in Holocaust oral history collections. It was such a fascinating experience as an intern there that I became a student worker and then eventually saw a possibility of being a librarian, infusing with the idea of human rights, the freedom to access information.
As a first generation college graduate, it really help me think about the possibilities besides the three types of industries that we tend to think about with these degrees. I ended up working full time as a library assistant and getting my MLS degree and then from there about seven years at the New York Public Library across different departments, and so that’s how I first got really interested and started.
Steve Thomas: So, we know now why you wanted to be a librarian, but why do you want to be ALA president?
Ray Pun: Yeah, that’s the one I’m getting asked a lot, and I wanted to be really transparent and known, make it known that I want to be ALA president because I believe in the work we do in building relationships and strengthening our connections with one another and with our communities. We’re thinking about all the work that we have done over the years, about 150 years. Let’s take a moment to think about that. So ALA will be 150 in 2026, and let’s look back at 1876. Could they imagine the candidates running this year? Would they have wanted it? Probably not. So here we are, and it’s so much to celebrate because we’ve come so far and we still have so much work ahead of us.
So I see opportunities, as ALA president, to really make those connections where we help ALA grow in different ways that ensures people feel affirmed. People have a sense of belonging within ALA. It’s something I’ve done in my work at Alder as a teacher educator librarian, in the different positions I’ve had across the profession, really thinking about a vision and level of engagement, and how we need to be mindful in terms of the changing dynamics that we’re experiencing, all the experiences and issues coming up, but also what we’re doing for ourselves internally. So I hope that by me running and then the track record, my vision for ALA, in terms of making our connections more stronger internally and explicitly addressing the issues, will affirm people and make them feel that they’re seen and that we’re doing important work together.
I truly believe I’m not just one person, but representing. Hundreds and hundreds of people who have supported me, collaborated with me, and mentored me in so many different ways. So, in a way, this is a celebration to recognize the work that they have done, too, and that relationships that we have built.
Steve Thomas: You’ve done a lot of work within various professional organizations like ALA, but what’s been the most rewarding work that you’ve done within ALA or any of the affiliated organizations?
Ray Pun: Right. I’ve been so honored to be given opportunities within ALA and outside of ALA in our affiliate spaces that are connected to ALA. For instance, I was able to be part of ALA Advocacy Group, this specific group known as ALA Policy Corps, which is a group of library advocates within ALA that helps promote and track the issues and priorities for the profession and within ALA itself. It’s a cohort program and it was such a great way to connect with 10 plus other leaders who are interested and specializing in issues like intellectual freedom, broadband, library funds, school librarianship, et cetera. Learning from them and hearing from each other was really helpful.
What does it entail to be an ALA Policy Corps? For example, the ALA Public Policy and Advocacy Office in Washington, D. C. offers us training in media in legislative developments in the issues that libraries are experiencing. So for example, I think this was in 2021 in the fall, where there was a bill that’s sitting around at the House and the ALA Public Policy and Advocacy Office reached out to me and said, “Hey, do you know anybody who who’s a library worker based in Bakersfield?” Because Speaker of the House at the time, Kevin McCarthy, is holding up a bill. “Is there a way for us to activate the groups there to get his constituents to recognize that this bill” – I think it was Build Back Better or one of those related bills – “that has library funding implications, can encourage McCarthy or his team to encourage McCarthy to like move forward?” And so we were able to make those connections right away in the middle of the night. And so I feel like I bring that to ALA, but also because I believe in this important work of engaging with stakeholders to ensure that our work is out there and that there are implications for us. And that being said, that’s more on the ALA policy level, high level work engagement.
But in terms of the external areas, like being part of the presidents of the Asian Pacific American Librarians Association, known as APALA, and the Chinese American Librarians Association, known as CALA, it gave me such an opportunity, celebrating 40th and 50th anniversary for those two groups, and seeing how much we’ve come because these groups did not initially felt included within the ALA space for the past 50 years. That’s why they became their own groups, independent of ALA, and now we’re affiliates. What I ended up planning as president, is working with leaders from both associations, and we wanted to create a leadership development forum to discuss the opportunities and the barriers that Asian, Asian American, and Pacific Islander library workers were experiencing because the percentages are there. It’s very, very low in terms of formal and informal leadership. So we ended up working together to secure an IMLS grant to host a national forum, bringing 100 plus Asian, Asian American, and Pacific Islander library workers to discuss these issues together. And this was exciting because this has never really happened before for APALA. This was our first IMLS grant focusing on this partnership, and we got recommendations from ACRL, ALA, to letters of support and so forth. So that was really helpful because it was a team effort, a collaborative effort to get this grant. And we defined what inclusive leadership meant. We defined what networking means for those who are AAPI, and really contextualize d leadership styles, because I think we’re looking at conditioning different experiences that in leadership, it’s not often not considering these perspectives. So it was such a great honor to co-lead this project and with both organizations and getting so much support.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, no, that’s great. And it just what you’re saying just shows that libraries have come a long way over the years as well, over the 150 years, but then even like you said, just 50 years ago Asian and Pacific Islander people did not feel welcomed in ALA enough to feel like they were being represented well so had to create their own separate organization.
And talking about inclusivity and diversity, that’s been something that’s always been an issue in librarianship. How do we make those work environments feel inclusive so that when people, if we’re successful of getting candidates into the pipeline to get hired that when they get into their job that they actually feel like they belong?
Ray Pun: Yeah, no, it’s one that a lot of people have been thinking about for decades and the numbers are there, Steve, and it’s unfortunate that it hasn’t changed as much regarding so much initiatives and the capacity that’s been invested in this. So I think it’s recruitment, retention, and engagement issues. So we see unfortunately still levels of microaggressions, still levels of subtle and systematic racism within our policies or practices that is not explicit.
For example, let’s talk about the field itself for academic librarians of color who may be doing First Year Experience work. So this is from my own experiences. Previously as a first year student success librarian serving first year students that are predominantly a BIPOC – Black, Indigenous or person of color – and maybe first generation and different socioeconomic standings, et cetera. And then what happens there is that I become a mentor to many, many students of color who didn’t realize that there is a librarian that maybe reflects their background. I’m also a first generation college graduate, child of immigrant parents, and a person of color, so reflecting all of that, and then feeling connected to that, as opposed to maybe not having that experience previously. And then what happens there is that there is a cultural taxation that happens, meaning that I would end up getting a lot more requests to mentor, support these students, but my peers who don’t identify those, might not have.
It sort of like doesn’t really matter or count as much. There’s no actual rubric that says, okay, if you are going to get more students of color engaged and because they seek you out, then you should be recognized, but that’s not the case. And it’s never going to be equal. There’s this inherent inequity in itself. So then the emotional labor is on me and others like me who are academic librarians of color having to do more of this kind of relationship building work that my other peers don’t have to. I think then it becomes an issue where we burn out, where we feel like we are unable to do our job because we got more support because our communities need us. I feel there’s something to be said about that. And it’s something I take really personally. I have co published articles with some of the students, co presented and forums, webinars, because I want to uplift them too. I see this issue. I keep hearing it from so many different library workers of color, and so I think there needs to be recognizing these issues coming in.
If we’re thinking about also, how do we bring more folks in with the mindset of engaging with the community, with the mindset of transforming this kind of work through policy, I think we should look at ethnic studies programs at the undergraduate level. So we’re talking about Black Studies, Asian Pacific American Studies, Chicano Studies, or Latinx Studies, or Indigenous Studies. There are a lot of focus in that community engagement aspect work through ethnic studies programs that I think we can partner or highlight how we need them in libraries. We need them to be part of this community so that they can better serve our communities and really engage with these different groups.
In general, libraries need to always take a look hard look at itself, its policies and practices, make spaces for others so that we can reform past practices. It’s a long process, and I see ALA creating these collaborative opportunities with all these different groups, ethnic studies departments, ethnic studies association, for example, just increasing awareness that they can become a librarian or library worker in different in public, academic, or school types. And most importantly, just knowing that there are other groups like the National Associations of Librarians of Color that I’m part of, including Black Caucus, APALA, CALA, REFORMA, and the American Indian Library Association.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, that’s great. Other than the issues that we just talked about, which is obviously a big challenge, where do you see the biggest challenges to libraries coming from in the coming years, and how would you lead the profession to help address those issues?
Ray Pun: We’ve seen multiple issues affecting us right now, and the challenges to libraries. I see this issue that’s coming up, which is this perceived invisible labor that is perpetual, where people aren’t clear what we do or assume that we’re just sitting behind a desk and reading, and that’s a public imagination that’s perpetuated by pop culture as well, and so it’s really difficult to dismantle that perception because in some ways it gives us visibility, but it also gives us this type of visibility that is incorrect and presumptuous. I see for instance, what we can do to address that and highlight what we’re really doing by transforming and telling our stories through the data that we have to highlight and ensure that people are really aware that we’re doing more than just what I described.
And I see the issues that are coming in, other issues coming in as a result. They’re all interlocking. We see issues of artificial intelligence; we see issues of people experiencing burnout in the profession because people are resigning or fear for their jobs because of so much harassment that’s happening because of intellectual freedom issues. We’re seeing all of these things happening. Is there a way to think about opportunities to support one another, to bring us together, to ensure that people do not feel alone when they’re going through these issues? That ALA is that community space that affirms the work they’re doing, that gives them resources and that makes connections for them.
So I think as ALA president, I’d like to really be more explicit in turning those opportunities into realities and ways where people can support and connect with each other in a way that addresses these issues. So AI, as I mentioned earlier it’s disrupting libraries in different ways. It’s been around in library systems. It’s not necessarily new, but there is this generative AI that’s coming in that I think it’s making people think about knowledge work and how it’s going to change in the next few years immediately. And so I see us looking at ethical considerations. Is there a framework that we can work together in different groups from ACRL to CORE or with the school librarians to think of ways to think about the copyright issues, the mis- and disinformation, the biases, because these tools are commercialized, and they’re encroaching our spaces, but we can’t completely separate ourselves because there seems to be a lot of deeper interwoven processes happening, but we need to be proactive because our users, our learners, are immediately thinking about these tools. And so we need to be engaged and thinking about the ethical considerations.
So there are many, many challenges, but to say what I would like to help address is to bring us together, to have those conversations and come up with a framework, or at least processes that help us address these issues because at the end of it, the burnout is really real. A lot of people are experiencing that even before COVID-19 pandemic, and I think there needs to be a way for us to share our stories and heal from that because this is an ongoing process and we need to emphasize the importance of self-care too.
Steve Thomas: Yes, absolutely. For a helping profession that we are, we often forget to turn that back inward to ourselves and take care of ourselves.
ALA’s president is also the president of the Allied Professional Association. In that role, how would you advocate for library workers particularly those who are dealing with harassment and intimidation when this current wave of politically driven book challenges?
Ray Pun: Yeah, I’m glad you asked that question, Steve. I for one feel for our public and school library colleagues experiencing harassment and intimidation. It is so unfortunate. We’re in a politicized moment right now.
You mentioned ALA-APA which is a 501(c)(4) focusing on the mutual interest of library workers compared to ALA which is a 501(c)(3) focusing on libraries. I see opportunities for us to empower ALA-APA, and to an extent with different groups within ALA, to help think about webinars and free resource trainings specifically on, for example, advocacy work, media training, letter writing campaigning, how do you organize people to come together to write letters to the constituents and addressing these issues? Is there anti-doxing training that we can do, which means that online safety is very important. People’s information, library workers’ information are being exposed because of these trolls. It’s a tactic to shame and silence. It warns us to be proactive in thinking about digital safety, and it could be in partnership with all these different groups like Library Freedom Project or some other group focusing on digital safety that I see us working and doing more of this training for our library workers, regardless of ALA-APA status or ALA membership status.
And then most importantly, we need to think inside the situation. So what can we do to make this work? So certainly ALA-APA can continue to building up resources and encouraging more collaborations. We need to think about the chapter relations office in ALA and how do we give more resources to that because then the chapter relations work with different state library associations can share those training and resources. And then also the affiliate leadership. There’s over a dozen affiliates, including the ones we mentioned earlier, giving them an opportunity to be engaged and being aware as well. Because at the end, when it’s an attack on one librarian, it’s an attack on all of us. We need to come together and be prepared through training, resource sharing, and understanding that this issue, whether you’re maybe an academic librarian or a school librarian that’s not affected, you still want to be aware that it’s happening because our peers really will appreciate that they’re not experiencing this alone and that we’re here to support them in different ways as we can. So I see an opportunity for us to come together through ALA-APA, through webinars, maybe an online summit to really address these issues because right now it’s happening and we need to be responsive.
And I might well also add that there’s been a lot of data that we’re in a public health crisis in terms of loneliness. One in three adults are experiencing isolation and loneliness. Two in three young adults are also experiencing that through a lot of data I’ve seen. And when you’re then experiencing these other issues, like these attacks, then you even feel more isolated.
So I work as an educational librarian, serving teachers, graduate students, becoming teachers and teacher educators, and I’m by myself. I’m actually solo. So I have to do a lot of engagement work, but I take the opportunity to talk about some of these issues because it’s, of course, our school media specialists, our school librarians, and our teachers too that are experiencing a lot of this harassment that’s just so, so demoralizing to see, and when they see that there are resources out there, like the Merritt Fund, that they can share out with the school librarians that they see, that helps a lot to know that people are thinking of each other and supporting each other. And that’s what I like to cultivate.
Steve Thomas: Well, speaking of that in your work, you said you work by yourself a little bit, but when you are working with other people how do you encourage the staff and coworkers around you to succeed? And is that something that you could transition and use if you were elected president?
Ray Pun: Yeah, that’s a great segue. I do a lot of work to affirm the experiences that others may have that’s not in the status quo. I think it’s important to understand that there are going to be perspectives that I’m missing and that it’s always important to have that conversation. One of my mantra that I take from my work is create joy wherever we are. Wherever we’re going, we need to celebrate and recognize. For instance, I recognize my colleagues doing important work, whether they’re in data or in enrollment by giving them a shout out in all staff meeting and thanking them in person when we do see each other in person. I think it helps quite a lot for people to hear that that we’re recognizing the good work.
I also think it’s important to do this because it’s always a difficult time right now. For example, when we had a student who had passed away and I reached out to one of the professors, it was really difficult and it makes us think about our compassion, but also our connection as humans. We’re not just here doing our job. And then like, that’s it. We actually have these connections that we’ve built and that we want to let others know that we’re here for them.
So within the question of ALA as an organization, I do my best to really support the staff. I think they are our gems. They’re our partners to collaborate and support the work we’re doing as volunteer leaders and to deliver such resources. I also understand that we all wear multiple hats when it comes to ALA and I wonder if there’s a way to, for example empower the incoming Executive Director, whoever that should be, to support the staff in different ways within ALA because there’s been increasing interest of engagement and that I think with the Executive Board of ALA and the Executive Director really empowering the staff to feel affirmed and feel like there’s a sense of belonging.
It certainly requires a lot of awareness. This is important to do. It’s a long term process to have those conversations, but then the small parts are really celebrating the joys, giving shout outs, recognizing people, thanking them for their work because many times it’s really invisible work. I do my best to really encourage colleagues to really share as they like, or to collaborate as they need to, because we’re here to support them and for them to succeed and thrive.
Steve Thomas: So the last big juicy issue that I wanted to bring up was neutrality, which just comes up a lot in the field, and a lot of why it becomes an issue is because we have this core value of intellectual freedom, but then we also have this core value of wanting to provide safe, inclusive environments for everybody. What are your thoughts on neutrality in libraries?
Ray Pun: Yeah, I still hear this from time to time. I don’t agree that there is neutrality in libraries. I will share that even technologies, the tools we’re using, including AI, they’re not neutral. They’re actually commercialized services, harvesting data, creating all sorts of concerns, and can support accessibility too, but in general no, there’s really no stance in neutrality and libraries because as I mentioned, I’m a history major and I always have been interested in the history of libraries looking back. And I had done and published research in the past, looking at libraries in Germany or in China in really specific periods, we’re talking about like the Third Reich or Cultural Revolution in China. Libraries were either closed or activated to be part of an institution that supports specific ideological movements, so there’s something to be said about that, where if they play a specific role, and does that help us understand their neutrality stance? It helps us understand that there’s also stuff happening in the United States.
Most recently I had co-authored an article with two other colleagues looking at medical libraries in the United States and then the history of it and how medical libraries are complicit in perpetuating eugenics by collecting black bodies and information about it during the turn of the 19th century leading up to the Civil War, and then the collections themselves became reports that became collected by the doctors, researchers, and then it became part of textbooks, and then it’s just this epistemology of knowledge-making that’s derived from vulnerable groups.
I think there’s something there that we need to reconcile with and recognize that libraries are places where we strive to really honor our core value for intellectual freedom, where people have the right to access information, and that we collaborate with others for social inclusion. We’re not perfect. Our knowledge system is not perfect, but we need to keep working on it to ensure that the issues we’re seeing right now, like book bans and censorship, it really prevents access to information. And as a result, it has all these repercussions. It prevents people from developing the ability to have empathy, to feel affirmed in our identities, to see themselves in books and programs and to understand what others are going through. So this core value for intellectual freedom is really important because it helps us honor the work of ensuring that people have access to engage and to see themselves in books or learn about other experiences.
Especially thinking about the intersectional issues. We’re also talking about underrepresented groups in books and programming, whether that’s BIPOC or LGBTQ+ or disabled people, and then thinking about their experiences and how it’s important to recognize that we make space for them. It’s not necessarily we’re sort of reducing voices for another, it’s not a zero sum game. We’re creating more space because we can make more space, especially during this time. We need to partner and work together to do this. So it’s important that we define the challenges and develop the solutions together. I see this issue still coming up, but it’s important to keep talking about it.
Steve Thomas: What are some ways that you feel like ALA can make itself more attractive to new members, to attract more people and grow the organization?
Ray Pun: Yeah, I think there are a lot of opportunities to consider. As someone who started going to ALA conferences, maybe around 2010, I thought the Exhibit Hall was just ALA. I didn’t realize there were programs and sessions. It’s huge, right? And this was Midwinter. I didn’t even know about Annual, having a double sized Exhibit Hall. But I see opportunities. There’s some good work that the New Members Roundtable within ALA does in terms of membership orientations. I also see maybe there’s something about trial membership, for instance, is this like a way to do like Netflix, you’re like trialing to see if there’s resources that are meeting your needs or is it a space where you feel you belong? I think there’s something there. I also know that right now the way the membership structures are done, it’s payments, it’s either annual or semiannual, so is there a way to think about monthly subscriptions? Because not everyone can pay up front a year or semiannual, so if we can do it monthly and have people have a chance to trial, I think that might entice more people to give it a try. I do know that there are new membership tiers that will happen later in 2025. But I still think there could be other ways that could be engaged.
Another way to think about is a buddy program. So in the conferences, that’s where a lot of people would feel like everything is so new, especially if you’re a new member and you’re not sure what’s going on, like the experiences I shared, is there a way to create a buddy program where people can be matched with someone more experienced to have coffee and then tell them a little bit about ALA and make them feel like they’re not alone or lost by themselves or take them to all the really cool parties that they have or even just affirming like what are upcoming virtual webinars? What are your interests? Try to make those deliberate connections. We had done this through the APALA program and mentoring where we had conferences coming up and then like we wanted to match people who were going, who were first timers, who are new, with people who’ve been there for a long time. It helps to make that effort because then it’s sustaining those connections.
And I really think maybe there are ways with the New Members Roundtable really highlighting of the work that ALA is doing. So for example, they provide resume reviews and if you go to the conference, you get that, and I think they’ve done virtual components, too. I feel like that should be expanded. Of course, we need to look at labor and capacity and scale, but imagine students realizing they can submit their resume and they don’t have to be an ALA member yet, but to get that feedback and then to feel like, Oh, wow, I’m getting that service for free, and I want to be maybe part of ALA to support it because it’s given me opportunities to find a job or so forth.
I see also other tangible ways. Maybe there is a newsletter that comes out that highlights all the new members coming in. Sometimes it’s just seeing your name or seeing people you know, right? It really helps us feel like we’re growing and there are more folks want to be part of it. And of course this is all something I’ve seen in other associations outside of libraries do, like they give you a welcome package and then some sort of virtual orientation that’s set up that happens on a monthly basis so that you can check in and learn more about what’s going on and build community there.
I think ALA can do this work, but we’re volunteer driven, we’re membership driven, so it takes all of us to come together as ambassadors to do this kind of work. And I’m happy to make those connections and have those conversations so that people can feel excited to have more people join.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, I love the conference buddy thing.
Ray Pun: And even like leading up to the conferences, I know ALA doesn’t do this because there’s capacity, but maybe in the future, like hosting a webinar two weeks before the conference, just to let people know what’s going to happen. So people might have the FOMO experience, fear of missing out, or maybe the opposite, the JOMO, like maybe they don’t, they’re like glad that they don’t have to go, but just at least engaging, because it’s accessible, virtually, we have the tools, and it’s a preview, it’s a teaser, and I think it helps because then people can see the recording or even participate in a live meeting on Zoom, and maybe they’ll be finding connections and be like, oh yeah, you’re going great, you know, in a breakout group, maybe we can meet. So it’s sort of like creating a self-sustaining effort where we just have to introduce what is the conference about and what to look into, and I think that’s an opportunity there too.
Steve Thomas: Just make sure you wear comfortable shoes. You’re going to be walking around a lot.
Who are the people in the profession that have been inspirations to you?
Ray Pun: Yeah, I’d like to give a huge shout out to Dr. Elaine Carey. She was my undergraduate advisor, and she encouraged me to look into libraries, to look into that as a career choice, and then over time, we partnered, we co published, we collaborated, bringing her classes into the library so I can show them research and so forth. And she’s been a constant support in terms of so many different ways she even encouraged me to be a union representative for New York Public Library’s research libraries, and because of her work as an organizer in the past, so it was really, really always helpful. And when I have someone who just gives me perspectives, make time and encourage me, that and make me feel seen and like understood, it really goes a long way. There’s another person, Miriam Tullio, I had met we were coworkers at NYPL, always had some insight and support and it’s because they model that in a way that I want to also follow, being compassionate, being active listener, being thoughtful, making time.
And of course, there’s Sandra Rios Balderrama, Janice Leslie Greenberg, so many people I can name. My friends across the National Associations of Librarians of Color, including those who have passed. Kenya Flash, she was such a brilliant thinker and someone who was my “no accountability” partner, meaning every time something came up, I’d be like, what do you think Kenya? She’d be like, “no, don’t do it.” Cause she knew my capacity and sometimes you need someone right to tell you no. I always think about opportunities when they come up, I think about her and what she would say, and then a good friend, Larry Mark, who had passed as well. Not a librarian, someone who is a sponsor of a friend long time who helped me understand that there are more to life than the work we do. So our opinions do not define us, but our experiences do. And he worked at the New York Times at the time was always so avid reader, and we always had good conversations about everything in the field. He is not in the field. He’s coming in from a publisher side or a journalism side and then gave me that perspective. So I miss them dearly, and every day they give me strength when I think about our memories.
In general, I think a lot of people in this profession inspire all of us to do good work and keep going on because I know there are many times I had thought about leaving the profession because I felt like there’s something maybe inherently not working for me, right, or something maybe I’m thinking of a deficit thinking. I’m thinking there’s something wrong with me. That’s why I’m not able to feel like I’m fitting in, but I keep going because I have all these folks who have crossed paths with, who continue to support me in these ways and give me energy in a way that uplifts me and for me to pay that forward, to do that for other people, to ensure that other people feel uplifted too. So that’s what I wanted to share.
Steve Thomas: Yeah, and sometimes that’s the best way to honor people, their memory, is doing for other people what they did for you.
How can listeners learn more about you and your candidacy?
Ray Pun: Yeah, thanks so much, Steve. I really appreciate this opportunity to speak with you, to hear from you and your experiences. I’ve been listening to Circulating Ideas for a long time, so I’m honored to be a guest for today’s episode. I admire Sam a lot, and then their work in intellectual freedom, and regardless of the outcome, I will do my best to support Sam, because it’s important that we support each other. So for folks who are interested in learning more about my work, I have a website, raypun.info, and also, I’m on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter, @raypun101, and I’m also on LinkedIn and Facebook, so folks can find me in different ways because I think it’s important to communicate in this way. And I look forward to connecting with more folks. And thanks so much, again, for this opportunity, Steve.
Steve Thomas: You’re welcome. Good luck in the election, and I hope everybody out there, if you are an ALA member, that you vote. And if you’re not an ALA member, join quickly and then vote.
Thanks a lot, Ray.
Circulating Ideas 